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Building Grey Levels


balooka

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Haha probably my Ingrish...

With bounce I meant the rubber skin not doing anything, might as well be cartboard. With give I meant the neeldkes being able to smoothly run over a surface. Both are not happening
 



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MalligaMallan

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Reelskin has both bounce and give :)

It's not magic, it's still made of silicone and not human skin (yack! :LOL:), you can find it has a certain resistance of taking in the ink. On the other hand that's at least my experience with human skin as well! Which surprised me the first times when tattooing myself and others.
 

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jay, would it be worth laying the fake skin on some foam or shock absorbing material? if you are tattooing it on a rigid surface it would be the same as trying to tattoo the wafer thin skin that covers the shin bone, very tricky.
 

MalligaMallan

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jay, would it be worth laying the fake skin on some foam or shock absorbing material? if you are tattooing it on a rigid surface it would be the same as trying to tattoo the wafer thin skin that covers the shin bone, very tricky.
It was a long time since I tattooed on these crappy sheets, but if I recall correctly I used to place them on a drawing pad and that helped. Not to hard, not to soft.
 

Patch72

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Haha probably my Ingrish...

With bounce I meant the rubber skin not doing anything, might as well be cartboard. With give I meant the neeldkes being able to smoothly run over a surface. Both are not happening
Wrap it around a bottle of lemonade/coke once empty and fill with water.this helps
 

balooka

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jay, would it be worth laying the fake skin on some foam or shock absorbing material? if you are tattooing it on a rigid surface it would be the same as trying to tattoo the wafer thin skin that covers the shin bone, very tricky.
Hi,
I had just started a new tattoo when I noticed a big piece (40x40 cm) of silicone about 15mm thick that I use when I transfer designs to a t-shirt. I will wrap it and use it as a buffer between my desk and the rubber. Mght just be a great idea,

Thanks
 

balooka

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Well, I tried the silicone sheet as a buffer and it worked like a charm! Should have tough about that sooner as it was like 2 feet away from me all the time. Thanks for the tip!

Also, I reduced the amount of the needles sticking out to about 1,5mm and it seems way more stable (that or the silicone above did that).

But now this... I was watching a video from an artist in NY and he does some amazing work with shading and hair and I would like know what kind of needle he uses for the hair in the video I'll link below, at about 7:30 into the video. Is that a flat?

 

balooka

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looks like a spread flat, (remove every other needle)
Thanks Daz

Learned sometthing new today. These are not available as cartridges it seems. Does he solder them himself you think (bars) or are the for sale?
 

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i think most artists just modify or make their own. Not heard of any pre made but im sure there must be some out there.
 

MalligaMallan

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That's exactly the kind of needle I wanna make myself. Haven't seen them for sale anywhere ever.

I think it could work great if you want a very peppery shading, not only for doing hair like in the video.

If you find it for sale anywhere please let me know!
 

balooka

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I think you all know Andy Engel and I was watching his black and grey DVD the other day and noticed his fresh tattoos are much darker than the healed ones. And I don't mean that the healed tattoo is just a tad lighter, but it became a whole 'new' tattoo (that looks awesome btw!). He builds his levels using 3 ink cups; pure black, a dark shade and a 1/3th shade. He seems to open up the pores with light shade+water and mix in the dark / black after he did a few passes with the diluted ink. He does A LOT of passes over the same area which suggests that he's barely breaking skin with each pas, am I right?

When you do black and grey, do you intentionally darken the whole tattoo so that when it heals it will get the right values? Or is it because he sweeps over the skin it heals lighter because skin renewal and therefor has to set it up darker?

Oh and another small side question... when you prepare the stencil, do you push the darkest values to 100% black in photoshop so you start out with pure black and shade the midshipmen's and lights as it should be from the reference?
 

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For stencils I think its best to only stencil the actual outlines and yes, solid black, you have your reference pic to get your shading etc. some will add a dotted line to the stencil to show the edges of shaded areas if needed.

For the grey, everyone has their own ways but generally all tattoo shading will heal lighter than when it is freshly laid in my limited experience.
 

balooka

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Thanks Daz,
If you do B&G on a portrait or anything realism without solid lines, do you push the blacks in de deep shades too 100%? Let's say the darkest value in a portrait is 90% black in Photoshop, do you crank that up to 100% without altering the mids so you have a reference for pure black in a portrait.

Not sure what "midshipmen's" are in my previous posts but autocorrect corrected 'mids' for me like that :)
 

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Im not a realist artist, but there are a few on here. But that is more or less what i would do, yes.
 

MalligaMallan

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I would like to help you with some input, as shading is what I do most, but I'm not sure I understand what you say/ask, and the shading technique you describe is nothing like the way I do it. I use solid black, no washes, I only use water to rinse the needle in every now and then. And there are top artists using the same technique, so it does work.

I think it all depends on what end result you wish. There are different ways to achieve shading (as if you didn't know :D)
 

balooka

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Haha
Using your reelskin I get really awesome results in the shading. I am a fan of Andy Engels work and he uses washes. I did use traight black and I do get decent results but I find it hard to hit the vakues I want. If that makes any sense. With washes I get more chances to build to the value I want,

What I tried to ask is that most photo’s don’t have a lot of pure black in it. I know you have to increase the contrast in the midtones to get more expression in an image, but do you also push the darks up a bit to hit 100% black since skin is not white as paper,
 

MalligaMallan

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Haha
Using your reelskin I get really awesome results in the shading. I am a fan of Andy Engels work and he uses washes. I did use traight black and I do get decent results but I find it hard to hit the vakues I want. If that makes any sense. With washes I get more chances to build to the value I want,

What I tried to ask is that most photo’s don’t have a lot of pure black in it. I know you have to increase the contrast in the midtones to get more expression in an image, but do you also push the darks up a bit to hit 100% black since skin is not white as paper,
Aah, got it (y) For your question about increasing contrast in motif from photo I have no answer, I never found that being an issue.

For values I agree, you do tend to get a "harder" shading, and also more peppery/grainy (which is what I want to achieve).
 

troub1edsou1z

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You don't have to increase contrast or value of the photo or image your using unless you want it as a reference. Otherwise Just use your artistic judgement to determine if and where you need to bump up contrast.
 
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