Cutback liners vs “conventional” liner

Otherone11

Premium
5 Feb 2021
11
Maine
First Name
Bob
Hey all-
Looking for some feedback on coil cutback liners. I’m having a bit iOS trouble finding a bunch of trouble do finding info online about them.
I’m wondering what the pros and cons aren’t of them and their function vs a “conventional” liner (I’m using conventional to describe a liner with a set binding post)

Most of my work is linework and minor b and g shading. And intend to sculpt lines more than one pass them as a reference to what I use my machines for.
I’m looking to upgrade after a year of tattooing with my cheap coil machine and wondering what might be best for what work I’m doing?



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Chustik

Premium
19 Jun 2020
71
Spain
First Name
Gerard
Gender
Male
gerard_van_nierop
Cut backs are setup tu run faster than normal liners. Most of the cut backs you see are for thinner groupings but they can be made for larger groupings too.

Not really a Pro/con for them. They are just made to go pretty fast. If you say you arent planning on pushing a 14 liner into someones ribs but more like a 7-9 and sculpt them you can prob do that with a cut back.

For machine upgrades, the best machines i've used are from Vlad Blad and Workhorse.
 
23 Sep 2019
403
Media
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Idaho
First Name
Allen
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Male
hellhoundkustoms
Really if you have your hand speed down with a "conventional" liner, there's zero need to grab a cut back. The reason they're cut back is because it means less distance for the armature bar to travel, which makes them fast. Your hand has to match the speed though. If you're just upgrading from a cheap machine I'd focus on getting something from a trusted builder that knows how to purpose build a machine. The good ones will tell you exactly what speed it runs at and what needle groupings it's best for.

For example, here's the stock listing for my favorite liner. This makes it a lot easier to make a choice than "trust us - this machine is a liner"

1614011818336.png
 

Otherone11

Premium
5 Feb 2021
11
Maine
First Name
Bob
Cool. Thanks y’all!
One of my objectives Ian figuring out a way to adjust the contact screw (is that’s even necessary) tonrun my liner as a shader from time to time.
Does having the open slot around the binding post for adjusting that serve as any sort of advantage? Or is using a liner for shading a different topic?
 
23 Sep 2019
403
Media
1
Idaho
First Name
Allen
Gender
Male
hellhoundkustoms
It's possible, but most quality machines out there really shouldn't be run that way. There's a lot more to liner vs. shader than just the contact screw gap. Spring gauge, coil size, capacitor size, armature bar length and weight, contact screw angle, etc...

If it's a money issue, check out Forward Tattoo. They're all purpose built and run 100 - 160 each. You can get a decent set for the same price as a higher end one. They're not quite as smooth and consistent as something from the big builders, but they get the job done well, they're tuned for the job at hand, and look cool. You just have to run the power a little higher which will make them get a little warm on long sessions.

In the long run you'd be best off with 3 machines. Liner, shader, color packer. But, it's pretty easy to pack color with a shader if your technique is good.
 
23 Sep 2019
403
Media
1
Idaho
First Name
Allen
Gender
Male
hellhoundkustoms
As an example of the difference, here's the same model of machine posted above but built and configured for a shader. Notice the differences in speed and coil size, as well as the reference to how hard the needle hits.

1614025039848.png

Here's my new shader from the same company (brother of the above builder). Again, notice the speeds, needle groupings, and coil size. This one I purchased for use as a mag machine to mostly pack color because it runs slow, hard, and will push those bigger groupings.

1614025228671.png

Here's a Forward model that's similar to my machine I use as a round shader (They're one-off's and I don't have advertised specs handy). Mine was rated at 115 cps unloaded if I recall, and I think a "medium" hit. This runs at about 7.5 - 8.5 V and takes a fairly quick hand for shading purposes. Mine was $130 and these are about that much right now. The above machines are all about $300.

1614025682784.png

All of these different specs are based on all of the other variables I listed and very little is the contact gap. Changing these things frequently for each time you want to do a different task would mean basically stripping the machine and rebuilding it every time. I'd think your time is worth a lot more than that.
 

gadsden1776

Premium
8 Oct 2011
270
First Name
n
Cool. Thanks y’all!
One of my objectives Ian figuring out a way to adjust the contact screw (is that’s even necessary) tonrun my liner as a shader from time to time.
Does having the open slot around the binding post for adjusting that serve as any sort of advantage? Or is using a liner for shading a different topic?
mostly a different topic.

it can be done. has been done. is done.

one of my mentors used one coil for everything. incredibly good artist & tattoo artist.

another collected machines & had a couple of machines from next generation that can be adjusted to operate as either. He really liked those... but didn't use one for both jobs. He had one as a liner & the other as something else & didn't even use them all of the time.

if you read machinegun magazine (do a search of the site) has a series of articles that explains coils really well. you will see why it is a good idea to have a few different coils, purpose built.

edit - Allen posted while I was responding & his response is excellent to that question
 

Otherone11

Premium
5 Feb 2021
11
Maine
First Name
Bob
Thanks again!
So are there any advantages to being able to move the binding post around with the cutbacks? Vs having them set like on a “conventional” machine?
 
23 Sep 2019
403
Media
1
Idaho
First Name
Allen
Gender
Male
hellhoundkustoms
You'd be able to set the machine for the purpose you want easier. If you want a faster machine you'd be able to move it back and then proceed to tune your machine for faster performance. But it wouldn't be a frequent adjustment. It would be one where you move it back, then proceed to change the springs out or cut new ones so that from now on that machine is a fast liner. So again, no real advantage if you're buying a machine that's already built for the purpose.
 

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