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Issue with Packing Black on Practice Skin

learner

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I have a problem that I do not know what is causing it?

Whenever I try to pack solid black onto silicone practice skin I cannot get it to look solid dark black. It looks very dull grey almost. I am using a 13 magnum M1 and I even tried doing very tight circles and very slow hand movement (so slow that it will chew up skin if was on real skin) to see if it was technique issue but I still cannot get a solid dark black within 2-3 passes. I almost have to do atleast 8-more passes to get it near dark black and by that time the fake skin looks messed up.

Does anyone know what is causing this problem? I have seen other people packing black on fake skin and they are able to get it dark within 2-3 passes.
 

DKJ

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I have no experience on fake skin, but i guess that black/color packing must be very difficult, since you're asking a liquid (ink) to pack between plastic "cells", while in real skin, it's packing into fluids.

I wouldn't care that much if your packing technique is good, but let's hear what the other members have to say.

Peace,

DKJ
 

Cyberthrasher

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First off, it's fake skin. Depending on which practice skin you're using, you may not even be able to get it. It takes practice either way. Turn your machine hit up while maintaining your current hand speed. Better but not good? Adjust either hand speed or machine hit until it gets better. If your machine is hitting harder and now you're chewing things up, move your hand faster while maintaining consistent tight circles. But, when it comes down to it, fake skin will always require a MUCH slower approach than human flesh. Always keep that in mind as you move forward.
 

KyleBl4ck

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I have a problem that I do not know what is causing it?

Whenever I try to pack solid black onto silicone practice skin I cannot get it to look solid dark black. It looks very dull grey almost. I am using a 13 magnum M1 and I even tried doing very tight circles and very slow hand movement (so slow that it will chew up skin if was on real skin) to see if it was technique issue but I still cannot get a solid dark black within 2-3 passes. I almost have to do atleast 8-more passes to get it near dark black and by that time the fake skin looks messed up.

Does anyone know what is causing this problem? I have seen other people packing black on fake skin and they are able to get it dark within 2-3 passes.
Don't do tight circles, do brush strokes back and forth. If you're doing it right it will create stippling or a "rake" looking mark, fill your color that way until it's solid. Don't do this on human skin though. When packing color on people you stretch their skin and either use tight circles with a round shader, or a back and forth motion with a mag at the right angle.
 

learner

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Don't do tight circles, do brush strokes back and forth. If you're doing it right it will create stippling or a "rake" looking mark, fill your color that way until it's solid. Don't do this on human skin though. When packing color on people you stretch their skin and either use tight circles with a round shader, or a back and forth motion with a mag at the right angle.
Can I ask how many times you have to go over to get the darkest tone of black when packing with magnum on fake skin? For some reason I still cannot get it to be darkest black tone within 2-4 passes like others. I have tried every technique and still can’t get it. I have to go over atleast 8 times for it to be darkest black tone but my fake skin is already ruined by that time. Not sure what the problem is. Anyone experience similar?
 

DKJ

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Can I ask how many times you have to go over to get the darkest tone of black when packing with magnum on fake skin? For some reason I still cannot get it to be darkest black tone within 2-4 passes like others. I have tried every technique and still can’t get it. I have to go over atleast 8 times for it to be darkest black tone but my fake skin is already ruined by that time. Not sure what the problem is. Anyone experience similar?
I'd say don't focus on packing fake skin, 2 passes can be enough on real skin, with a good stretch and the proper needle angle (yesternight experience).
I'm 100% sure one pass is working too! ;-)

Consistency is one of the keys, be sure to stay on the same pattern/motion, same hand speed, same stretch, same angle, and all will be fine with little trauma.

Peace,

DKJ
 

Cyberthrasher

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I get it in one pass for the most part. Proper machine setup will go a long way. You haven't mentioned what you're using at all and what the setup is.



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MirandM

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What I've noticed is that there's a LOT of difference on practice skin with different inks. Some inks just don't come out black, not even in lining.
Vegan ink on plastic cells is obvious different than on sensitive human cells.
 

learner

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I get it in one pass for the most part. Proper machine setup will go a long way. You haven't mentioned what you're using at all and what the setup is.
I am using a dragonfly clone and pen machines. Needle is a 13M1 magnum. Ink using is Dynamic Black or Allegory Black. Practice skin is Yuelong 1mm thick though I am ordering new skin soon.

I have a few issues that I can’t seem to figure how to fix:

- Can’t seem to pack black ink within a few passes to get it black enough, very dull value. It takes me atleast 12 passes to get it to a dark enough black value. I have included pictures showing number of passes and how dark it gets.

- Second problem is how do I stop getting darker spots/dark joining lines when doing gradient shading? I usually have 3 caps of my own wash. I have tried back and forth and also circle technique. I would like to know the proper technique of how to shade over the current value with a lighter value. Where do I start shading from? And when to stop? And how to make it smooth? I usually shade half way from the current value.


 

Cyberthrasher

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Practice skin is Yuelong 1mm thick though I am ordering new skin soon.
Every single one of your problems can be traced to that. Use cheap ass practice skins to learn how to control your machine for consistency. But you'll play hell getting anything that resembles a good result. Get Reel Skin or A Pound Of Flesh. In the meantime, oranges and bananas are probably a better alternative if you dont' have access to pig skin.
 

Dazza

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On fake skin you have to go deeper than you normally would to get good saturation, if your skin is only 1mm thick ,the answer to your question is your no going deep enough to saturate , when you wipe to clean the skin your probably removing half your ink ,


why does the autocorrect on this forum suck ?
 

learner

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On fake skin you have to go deeper than you normally would to get good saturation, if your skin is only 1mm thick ,the answer to your question is your no going deep enough to saturate , when you wipe to clean the skin your probably removing half your ink ,


why does the autocorrect on this forum suck ?
Hmmm well the practice skin advertised as 1.2mm but it was false advertising and came to be 1mm thick and it wasn’t cheap aswell. Anyways I have got a thicker 3mm practice skin that just came in so will have to see with that.

Besides that can anyone help me on how I can not get darker joining lines? Not sure when shading the next shade of gradient do I shade over the darker shade half way or where? To not get those joining lines and darker spots.
 

DKJ

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Besides that can anyone help me on how I can not get darker joining lines? Not sure when shading the next shade of gradient do I shade over the darker shade half way or where? To not get those joining lines and darker spots.
If we're talking line joints, unless you're going for some watercolor style, they can't be darker or else that means your lines are not fully saturated.
If your lines are 100% saturated, there's no way they can go 200%.

So you need to make sure your lines are solid at full saturation, it will end your problem immediatly.

Peace,

DKJ
 

MalligaMallan

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Yes, it's a good idea not to start/stop in same places when shading. It's also a good idea to go in different directions with the needles. I'm talking "brush strokes" or back and forth movement. You do pretty much the same as when shading with a pen.

What you want to avoid is too much ink being packed in one spot. If you go one direction and then go back you always get more ink (or graphite when drawing) where you make the turn so it's important to spread out the turning so to say. If you have no experience from drawing, I think you should start with that before jumping directly into tattooing.
 

Cyberthrasher

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Think about it for a minute. You're having to go over 12 times to get full value black. When you're shading a gradient you need to slowly transition between values so you don't get a clear line of separation between values like you are. Since you have to try so hard to get solid black, you're going to have to try equally as hard to get the gradients. Aside from your practice skin being a lot of the problem (as I mentioned above), a lot of it is technique and experience. You have to practice control. Practice controlling your machine speed, hand speed, needle depth, and value of pigment to get the value you need in the transition. Learn how to feather out your darker shade and then feather in your next value so that they overlap, but it's not ONLY about overlapping.

And again, don't forget the medium you're working on. Practice skin does not work like flesh. My suggestion is to not even try shading yet until you get good at getting a solid black, learning what variables in your setup create what results. Shading is just another solid value that happens to be lighter than black. It still has to be even. If you can't get black than you're not going to get gray any smoother.
 

learner

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If we're talking line joints, unless you're going for some watercolor style, they can't be darker or else that means your lines are not fully saturated.
If your lines are 100% saturated, there's no way they can go 200%.

So you need to make sure your lines are solid at full saturation, it will end your problem immediatly.

Peace,

DKJ
I’m talking about shading like when you have a darker shade down on practice skin then about to shade next with a lighter shade. I always get a darker line where the two gradients meet. I’m not sure where to shade, do I shade over the top or where the shade ends.
 

learner

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I also tried the new 3mm practice skin that arrived and it is really worse. Can barely see my 1 drop wash on it. It very hard to take the ink. Not sure what the problem is when other people can get a dark value within 3-4 passes. Sigh.


Anyone know what kind of practice skin this is and where to buy? It is 1.3mm thick and they get dark black value so easy within 3-4 passes -
 

MirandM

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Maybe this 6.99US $ 50% OFF|3MM A4 Size Tattoo Practice Skin Double Sides Silicone Microblading Eyebrow Permanent Makeup Practice Skin Tattoo Supplies|Tattoo accesories| - AliExpress will help.
I had similar problems with my crappy 1 mm skin. Members here suggested to buy reelskin or similar but those go at rather abnormal prices here (19€ per sheet it just too much for my hobby). After some intensive search I found this 3mm skin, bought it and it really is waaaay better. Shading looks like shading should look, texture is much more similar to real skin and best of all is the price which is fair enough for this material.
 

Cyberthrasher

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We should probably stop referencing the size of a practice skin as a measure of quality. The thickness isn't going to effect how well it takes up the ink.

I gave you several tips above. Which part are you having problems with? I can guarantee you that a lot of it is practice and learning how to control your machine. That's why we use practice skin so we don't screw up trying to figure it out on people.
 

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MalligaMallan

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Great evidence for the fact that anything works for practicing on!!

Patchy shading, but who cares! Love it! 😍
 

Cyberthrasher

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Great evidence for the fact that anything works for practicing on!!
how thick was that stuff you sold me from your stash? I know it's thin enough my mentor was surprised I'm not going straight through it at first.
 

MalligaMallan

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how thick was that stuff you sold me from your stash? I know it's thin enough my mentor was surprised I'm not going straight through it at first.

You mean the Reelskin I sold to you was thin? 🤔 Reelskin is usually pretty thick, at least 3mm.
 

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You mean the Reelskin I sold to you was thin? 🤔 Reelskin is usually pretty thick, at least 3mm.
Yeah, it was the rolls that you had custom made for your project. It's at least half as thick as normal Reelskin, and stretches (big benefit when learning)
 

MalligaMallan

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Yeah, it was the rolls that you had custom made for your project. It's at least half as thick as normal Reelskin, and stretches (big benefit when learning)

Hmm, now that you mention I recall you're actually right. It was thinner, I may even have asked them to make it thinner as I was wrapping the mannequin in it. It was (as you mention) easier to stretch it and sew a tighter fit to her body.

I never felt worried I would tattoo through it however (but actually did in the beginning, but that was due the stretch more than the thickness I would say. And my inexperience 😊). But I figure it's different when tattooing traditional style like you often do, compared to the realistic motifs I did on the mannequin.

Did you ever tattoo right through it or did it work?
 

Cyberthrasher

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Hmm, now that you mention I recall you're actually right. It was thinner, I may even have asked them to make it thinner as I was wrapping the mannequin in it. It was (as you mention) easier to stretch it and sew a tighter fit to her body.

I never felt worried I would tattoo through it however (but actually did in the beginning, but that was due the stretch more than the thickness I would say. And my inexperience 😊). But I figure it's different when tattooing traditional style like you often do, compared to the realistic motifs I did on the mannequin.

Did you ever tattoo right through it or did it work?
Works awesome. Sometimes stretching it makes the lines separate over time, but not too bad. I've used it for everything I've posted pretty much.
 

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View attachment 26730 even the cheap shitty skins have their use. This was on a $0.50 not even 1mm thick. I know it's not perfect but was still fun to play around with
Even after all this time I still work on cheapest 1mm practice sheet like this, when you hit skin you will be amazed how easy it seems after sweating on these rubbers ;)(y)
 

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