P Long Throw Question and Help..

Chamberzezz

Premium
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
77
Location
Devon, UK
First Name
Ailin
Ok, I'm reading and watching things thats making me lean toward trying out a long throw on my machine. As I understand it, it's much let hammer-like on the skin, and softer.

The only problem is, I have no idea where to get information on how to adjust my shader for this. Or set one up. All i know.. ( or think I know) is that the back spring is bent up a little bit more..... (???)

Firstly: How far does the spring bend up?
Secondly: What gauge for the front and back string should I use?
Third: Do I still need to have about 2mm between the contact screw and front spring?
Fourth: what weight armature bar is best?

I know it's quite a full on question but would love to know

Cheers
 
Last edited:

skinpix

Premium
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
894
Location
uk
Media
34
First Name
Mark
Hi mate...
the timing spring you want is...0.016.
the rear spring is.....0.017.
the armature bar should be a medium weight bar.....whilst holding down the arm bar,the gap should be approx the thickness of a 2p peice.
As for the rear spring pressure,its a case of slight adjustments to see what works...to much bend will weaken the "hit".
The timing gap for a liner is approx the thickness of a 5p peice.
Hope this helps...:icon_wink:
 

Chamberzezz

Premium
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
77
Location
Devon, UK
First Name
Ailin
Thanks mark, thats great. very helpful. Hmmm will have to look into the rear spring pressure thing. Is the an approx gap size between the amature bar and front coils?
 

skinpix

Premium
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
894
Location
uk
Media
34
First Name
Mark
Thanks mark, thats great. very helpful. Hmmm will have to look into the rear spring pressure thing. Is the an approx gap size between the amature bar and front coils?
To be honest,im not to sure mate...
 

stretch561

Premium
Joined
9 Jul 2011
Messages
6
First Name
stretch
Rear spring should have no more then 425 grams of tension.i would lean more towards 350-400. all his setup does is lets you work and work and work the area with less trauma to the skin joshua carlton is known for thet and mike devries. If you go to www.mdtattoo.com look at his work you can see how he layers different colors and blends them in nicely. i would use a .16 front and .18 rear and i would go as far as having 2 and a half nickles thick and see how she runs from there then move it to 2 nickles depth and so on but a long throw should be around that area.
 

Chamberzezz

Premium
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
77
Location
Devon, UK
First Name
Ailin
Rear spring should have no more then 425 grams of tension.i would lean more towards 350-400. all his setup does is lets you work and work and work the area with less trauma to the skin joshua carlton is known for thet and mike devries. If you go to www.mdtattoo.com look at his work you can see how he layers different colors and blends them in nicely. i would use a .16 front and .18 rear and i would go as far as having 2 and a half nickles thick and see how she runs from there then move it to 2 nickles depth and so on but a long throw should be around that area.

So would that be 2 and a half nickles depth between contact screw and front spring OR armature bar and coil?

Thanks all this is very helpful indeed... :)
 

stretch561

Premium
Joined
9 Jul 2011
Messages
6
First Name
stretch
if you put a certain amount of tension on a rear spring by using a gram scale that would make the armature bar sit where it lays.375-400 grams for a long stroke shader is ideal. the 1-2 knickle gap would be in between the contact screw and the spring. What you would do is once you have the rear spring set curve your front spring., back the contact screw all the way out....then hook up your machine and start to turn the screw back towards the spring... stop when the machine kicks on and just touches the spring. From there give it about 1 turn or so just until it sounds good (you should know the sweet spot sound). On a long stroke shader you dont want to much tension on the rear....meaning if you pull the A-bar down and the release it up once the spring hits the contact point it should barley continue forward if it starts to bend the front spring more then theres to much tension on the rear. Another thing that effects this is the geometry of frame of the machine.
 

Chamberzezz

Premium
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
77
Location
Devon, UK
First Name
Ailin
Thats fantastic info thank you. I must admit that when i first read that it make me go abit cross eyed. But reading it again and doing abit of home work made much more clearer. Just need to find some scales/weight gauge thing... not sure where to start looking but I'll have a look around....

One other question though. Does the A bar need to be short or long?

Thanks again
 

marked 4 life

Premium Gold
Joined
31 May 2011
Messages
1,453
Location
Stoke on Trent
Media
49
First Name
Andy
Gender
Male
If you were creating a long stroke liner for bigger needle groupings then 18 / 18 spring combination works better, regarding the air space between the centre of the front coil and the underside of the armature bar then 3 - 4 mm usually works but a spring tension gauge is the best way to go, I got mine from time machinetattoo supplies http://www.timemachine-europa.com/shop/engl/start.php?extras.php
 

Chamberzezz

Premium
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
77
Location
Devon, UK
First Name
Ailin
Ok thats all great stuff thanks.

Now, I'm struggling to find a medium armature bar. It either says heavey or light but can't find medium. some have numbers like: 1/2, 5/8 or 3/4 Im assuming this might be just the size of the bar but not sure. They are all different legnths too. I'm all confused...Eeeek! Any suggestions anyone?
 

marked 4 life

Premium Gold
Joined
31 May 2011
Messages
1,453
Location
Stoke on Trent
Media
49
First Name
Andy
Gender
Male
Check out wildangel on e bay for bars, bars vary in length usually 38, 39 , 41mm, check your length first on your machine, also the pre tapped hole could be in a slightly different place on the bar, trial and error im afraid.

Geometry of the frame makes a difference as well, the space between the end of the armature bar and the rear spring shelf.
 

Chamberzezz

Premium
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
77
Location
Devon, UK
First Name
Ailin
That was a good plan. Checked my machine and the bar is 3.8

Im assuming it's not a heavey weight bar, but not sure if its light or medium weight. It's other measurments are 9mm by 4mm....give or take a mm. It could be 10 or 5...

So my question is, Is that light or is that medium?
 

Chamberzezz

Premium
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
77
Location
Devon, UK
First Name
Ailin
Thanks to everyone for their help on that one. I now I asked a lot but I really wanted to understand the whole thing... I've got my bits ordered and ready to rock n roll.... Hopefully...