New Rotary on the Block

Spiral

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just to let you guys who love your rotaries know there has started to appear on ebay a new rotary, it has the same set up as the dragonfly but @ more than half the cost,comes in various colours, something to look out for, might be worth looking @,so i think given time the price will settle around *£100ish on ebay.depending how good they are, they have only just started to appear so keep an eye out.(i know im tempted), thought id let you know:icon_biggrin:

i have emailed the manufacture asking the weight, warranty, voltage, parts and throw...etc, post it when i get a reply
 



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Basic
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ive noticed these on ebay too. Not sure how they will compare to a dragonfly tho, i dont think i would want to pay around *£100 for a cheap copy that probably has a crap motor. If it was a little cheaper it may be worth a go.
 

Spiral

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i had the same hang up , ive emailed them about the motor, lets see what comes back.
 

Spiral

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well they have repiled, below:

yes they come with 12 months warranty and weigh 74g they run around 12 volts and the throw is around 5mm.
The motors we us are an imported one but are very powerful and to date have been fine, we use these in our studios and had no problems, we are looking at offering an option to have a swiss motor but as you may know there are around *£80.00 just for the motor but will fit straight in.

well i couldnt resist it, did some research, the maxon swiss motor will fit these, so purchased a new motor for 85euro and a machine for *£145, total *£230 still half the price of the original,but with a swiss motor same set up and a good build quality and just as good, well happy. nothing ventured and all that. now to put it to it the test.:icon_biggrin:
 

gadsden1776

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cant wait for the review.

are u going to see how long the supplied motor runs & how well before putting in the swissy?
 

dax172

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i have seen these on ebay for about 2 weeks now popping up a lot more frequent but i have to agree with Viper65, i would not pay *£100 for a knock off, i would rather add the extra and get a real Stigma.

if anyone does purchase it i would be insterested in a review of the machine and the spec of which you get.
 

MURK

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Any reviews on this dragonfly replica? or the firefly (same thing) new image are selling?
 

flashhighland

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Any reviews on this dragonfly replica? or the firefly (same thing) new image are selling?
Surely the Firefly is a knock off version of the Dragonfly? It's a fraction of the cost. I'd always go for the original and take a hit on the cost. There will be differences.
 

MURK

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Surely the Firefly is a knock off version of the Dragonfly? It's a fraction of the cost. I'd always go for the original and take a hit on the cost. There will be differences.
The stealth is also a knock off but great machine but could do with a little softer hit for shading for me which is why i like the idea of this and its affordable
 

Tattooz

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I'm fancying the dragonfly too. Will have to see what the piggy bank can release.
Anyone want any of my DVD's? :icon_cheesygrin:

Look in the premium goodies section. You know you want too!
 

Spiral

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right guys, here we go, the firefly/dragonfly clone,replica, knock off,whatever its called, is'nt as good as the dragonfly ,(well thats a given) but it does run well all be it not as quite as i expected,(or maybe im just used to the noise the my dragonfly does'nt make). you maybe have to bend the needle ever so slightly to compensate for the needle retainer i do the same with my dragonfly, when i first ran the clone with ink, it kicked out the ink all over so adjusted the speed and needle retainer and had it running @ 11v nicely after that, it put a really nice line in and there isnt too much vibration either,it also shades very well, and it does hit softer than my stealth, i havent put in the swiss motor yet as i wanted to see how it ran as is, but will do soon to see how that compares,and wheather it really makes that much difference, the one thing i did notice thou is that the adjuster does not have as much scope as the dragonfly,(but plan to strip this out and put in a spring of choice), i have also fitted a rca plug to it(works very well)and think im gonna fit a led light in the future. all in all yes it maybe a replica/clone/knock off and not a dragonfly or a stigma but most machines are copied be it rotary or coil, its really down to the individual to make an informed choice, imo not a bad little machine and i think i will keep this one, it works for me,hope this helps :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:
 

MURK

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Thanks for the info id read the adjustment was limited but from your opinion and others it seems to do a decent job, im after a soft shader and its a toss up between trying this or a glyn flew, like the simplicity of rotary tho, be interesting to know how the maxon motor differs in performance
 

MURK

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Yes the parts are compatible, not to sure about excenter bearing but the motor could always be moved up or down
 

MURK

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I completely stripped my firefly the other day and was thinking of doing the same thing as u by getting the origional dragonfly piston housing and spring etc the only problem is on the clone the excenter bearing rod is connected to the piston housing in a different way to the original, the original has a circlip fixing the clone seems permanently fixed at this point ( not sure if anyone else has managed to take this bit apart) so i would believe you need not only the piston sleeve/housing but also the excenter bearing/rod. Your looking at around 100 euros for this setup. Personnaly i would rather invest that money in a maxon motor and maybe just change the back spring. Once lubed the parts on the clone run quite smooth so not sure if changing them for original would make much diff. As for the rca soldering im not 100% but if ur capable of making a good solder it works on same principle
hope it helps bud
 

MURK

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Yeah it is a class rotary im not willing to invest in a dragonfly untill my skills have improved but i cant see what difference there would be between the original and clone if you replaced the clones motor/bearing and housing etc all in all around *£150, apart from the *£200-*£300 saving. The frame is solid and yeah the parts i cant see failing anytime soon they are durable plastic and metal sleeves and if lubed theres barely any friction. For lube a guy on here contacted the supplier and he said to use silicone oil ive also used wAhl oil cus i had some lying about. Tre seems to be two clones the firefly which has a frame very much similar to dragonfly and the clone which has an open motor casing which i havent looked at so not sure if this one has a circlip fixing. As for the piston housing itself i woud reccomend asking a member called spiral as he has original and clone so can fill u in on that particular part fitting comfortably. Oh and i fitted a rca converter on mine to save soldering etc and it works perfect just had the negative connection cut down to elimate excess wiring
let me know how u get on
 

Titan-Ink

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Ok, I have purchased 2 of the firefly machines, and i have sent the 2 back and got refunds......

Working on client number 1, small grub screws that hold the motor together came undone and the machine made a horrible noise and quit .... client looked genuinely scared

Client number 2, working on a rib cage and 'pop' small spring flew out of the top of the machine and the sound it made was like a bag of ball bearings being smashed over a wooden table.

I have since purchased 2 x Rotary Works machines, and boy are they the business. So much so, Joshua Carlton uses them. You can only buy from Dale direct via facebook |(rotary works) these are *£140 shipped to the UK for the plain brass machines and they are proper work horses with expensive motors in them (the motors are big)

Hope this helps, i wouldn't want you to buy a firefly and have the same problems i had
 

beppe

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I had a few teething problems with my firefly (1 duff motor and a broken hold up spring) but I still really like it, I want to try it with a maxon motor too. The one good thing about the motor breaking is that I can now take it to bits blindfolded! I'll post some pics of it getting stripped tonight if you guys want?
 
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toetoe62

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i'v used one for about a month now and i really can't fault it, i except that the motor will not live out the machine but i took that into consideration before i had it and when it does go on me then i will replace it with a much better motor and as for the other bit's with them being compatible with the dragonfly i'm not worried at all, i dropped it after about a week from having it and all that happened was the motor slid forward a bit and so it wouldn't run right until i realised what had happened, a simple fix with one of the keys provided, i think someone even complained about the box that they came in but mine came in a nice silver box, i didn't get anything like that when i purchased the cheyenne hawk and that was *£400, i except that maybe some will be faulty in some way but the after sales is great, i really needed a second machine and really couldn't afford another hawk but for how much a firefly costs, it's a great machine.
 

beppe

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Scooby, i tried to pm you yesterday but your inbox is full! My firefly is in bits as i speak, I'm gonna have to make it a pdf on how to dis/assemble/mod the firefly and upload it as a link to the forum as I've got a whole lot more photos than I thought I would! Also discovered my hold up spring has disintegrated. Just waiting on my dragonfly internals to arrive now and I'll get it finished. I've also repainted it bright orange, its my favorite color!
 

TattooJay

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Scooby, i tried to pm you yesterday but your inbox is full! My firefly is in bits as i speak, I'm gonna have to make it a pdf on how to dis/assemble/mod the firefly and upload it as a link to the forum as I've got a whole lot more photos than I thought I would! Also discovered my hold up spring has disintegrated. Just waiting on my dragonfly internals to arrive now and I'll get it finished. I've also repainted it bright orange, its my favorite color!
Post some pic's up, sounds like a great project.
 

beppe

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Yeah, I've got a motor, piston assembly, and a few spare springs on their way from inkmachines. Im pretty sure the motor will fit, the one thing I'm worried about is securing the piston assembly, on the firefly is a push fit pin, the dragonfly uses a circlip to attach it to the excenter assembly. I might have to order a new pin and circlip too.

heres a pic of the firefly in orange
 
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beppe

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on mine theres 2 grub screws to hold the motor in, you can see one in the pic at the bottom, the other is on the other side. To paint it i just stripped it, sanded off all the black, masked off all screw threads, sprayed on 2 coats of acid etch primer, then 3 coats of acrylic spray paint.

And to answer your question about the pin on the firefly, it pushes out, its just a very tight fit. I did it by removing the hold up spring, then lining up the pin with the hole in the back of the neck, then placing an allen key sideways across the pin and pushing like fuck till it clicks out of place. Then you just push it all the way through the back through the hole
 

beppe

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Beppe YOU ARE THE MAN :) I been waiting forever to verify that information

This site wont let me send more then one message a hour haha
Anyway i got your messages
Yeah guys I received my dragonfly internals yesterday, and they all fit, although I did have to solder an additional wire onto the motor. The one thing that surprised me was that the motor they supplied appeared to be a Faulhaber, not a Maxon. But Faulhaber only make brush-less motors this can only be a good thing. It now runs better than ever! Its just flat out beautiful to be honest!

Anyway, anyone else wishing to do this, heres a list of the parts and tools you will need:

From ink machines: parts 40, 42, I also ordered a few spare stay up springs.
Tools, Allen keys supplied, precision screwdriver, soldering iron, solder, external circlip pliers (small), 2x 5cm length of wire.

I'm still working on the step by step guide, hopefully it'l be sorted this weekend.
 

MURK

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Thats good news to the fiefly fans thanks for postin this up, will be tryin this same setup but with the excenter bearing standard stroke added, have you tried lining with the new motor fitted if so how u find it? Guessin the volts are increased with new motor because ive read it runs high on original?
 

mincadur

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Hello guys. Greetings from Costa Rica. I'm new to rotaries and I was very hesitant about getting a very expensive one. This thread has helped me make my choice. I have placed an order for it and I will let you know how it works for me (being the first rotary I can only compare with coils).
 

Spiral

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Hey has spiral passed away or something ? Thought he would know all about these machines but i get no response so i guess not.

I am taking mine apart in the next day or so, i cant wait any longer and i just want to rebuild it and re lube

hi mate
nope not dropped off yet, just same s*@t different day and all that, but i have messaged you now, and here my firefly rca set up, angled the rca this way as im a lefty, cheers
 

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beppe

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You can strip it without removing the piston assembly pin, just remove the cap, adjustment screw and needle bar pin, loosen the excenter bearing grub screw and the two grub screws holding the motor in, push the motor in till it clears the excenter, then push the piston and excenter up through the neck. Scooby hope you found my pm helpful, there was pictures to go with it but as I have a crap Internet connection I couldn't upload it complete.
 

beppe

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Here's my firefly/dragonfly machine, absolutely love it now with the dragonfly bits and the respray!

 

beppe

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Cheers, it was sanded down with 240 then 800 grit sand paper, cleaned, then I masked off all the screw threads and important bits, 2 coats of acid etch primer, then in very thin coats just built up orange acrylic spray paint. Then I left it to dry for 24 hours before putting it back together. The silicone oil is perfect unless you plan to paint your machine, it does crazy stuff to paint.
 

beppe

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ThanksSounds easy enough, I thought silicone was safest and put in condoms to lube them so how does it ruin paint ? I heard its in condoms lol Is the "team association shock oil" 100% silicone oil ?
It's fine once the paint is dry, it's just any little spots of silicone will repell the wet paint causing 'fish eyes', with any paint job, the better it is prepped the better the finish will be. And yes the oil you are using it spot on.
 

beppe

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Thanks brother
This forum has nobody on it huh or all noobs who dont know machines cause this machine is great for those who know allot.
I wouldnt say that mate, I just think its the price range of the machine, *£130 is a little too expensive for someone who is just starting out with rotarys, especialy with the hildbrandt machines proving so popular. But yeah with a few tweaks I cant see why this machine cant be just as good as the dragonfly for half the cost! And another point is that people can be a little apprehensive about stripping a piece of kit that cost costs this much!
 

mincadur

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I just received my machine today. I will try it on a tattoo and let you know my thoughts. So far I like it. I like the weight, the feel and the low vibrations.
 

chixtattoo

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i have 2 replicas and planning to upgrade it also using original parts. i was just wondering why did you solder an extra wire for the motor? and does the piston assembly fit perfectly without modification??
 

beppe

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the motor came from inkmachines with just a +ive wire attached, dont know weather the dragonfly is grounded through the motor body or the rca connection or something, but to attach it to the firefly binding posts i had to solder a wire directly to the -ive on the motor. The piston assy fits fine in mine, did have to order the pin and circlip for it also though, the pin on the firefly does'nt fit the dragonfly piston assy, it's also worth ordering a few spare hold up springs.
 

mincadur

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Just tried the machine with 3 tattoos and I gotta tell you...I might not go back to coils. I know the machine has a few things that can be improved but all I gotta do i change the parts and I will have an even better machine. Thank you all for the information shared in the forum. You guys helped me in making the decision about purchasing this machine. Good luck to everyone. Happy tattooing ;)
 
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Beppe, Do you happen to have the Faulhaber motor part#? Also, how is the step-by-step guide coming along? Is it possible to post a picture of the back of the machine where the binding posts are? I am curious if an RCA jack could be mounted in the frame like the original Dragonfly?
 
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