Shader/liner Questions...

eggdrop2011

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Okay so.. im a NEW begginer, and I need a little help with my machines.. I bought a kit off of ebay, and i recieved two machines, i believe they are gold bullet and red bullet machines. anyways the main problem im having.. after two days of using them.. im having an issue with the (shader). I have been doing tons of research on this and ive read that shaders are to have the contact screw at the tip of the front spring and that the gap should be about the size of a nickle from the spring to the contact screw when pushed down. well ive done this.. but when i plug it in, and push the foot pedal down.. nothing happens. i have it set around 8-9v. Heres the kicker.. if i screw in the contact screw down quite a bit.. then it seems to work.. but then theres not much movement in the needle. it only moves up and down just a hair because theres no room the for a-bar to move up and down.. does anyone know why or what i can do????
 



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maggot

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Re: Shder/liner Questions...

difficult to say without seeing but instead of moving contact screw down try bending spring up abit PS if you put a picture up it will give people a better idea
 

eggdrop2011

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Re: Shder/liner Questions...

Thank you very much... i will give a close up shot within the hour
 

Tattooz

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You need to take off the front binder and contact screw, hold the front of the armature bar and lift upwards gently so that you get a slight upwards bend in the rear spring. The gap shown in the second pic is way too wide and hopefully you are pulling the needle down in the pic.

You need to press down the armature bar, then set the gap.
In the downloads area, there is a free book which goes through all the steps in great detail. I have also got a dvd somewhere that goes through machine setup.

Hopefully this should help you. Any more problems just ask.
 

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As above but first align the armature bar as it looks too far back, even with the bend on the needle bar, slacken the screw on the A bar and move the bar forward slightly, make sure it is aligned, put a pen mark on the underside of the rear spring so it goes back in the correct position again, either remove the front binding post to bend the rear spring up but be careful not to loose the insulating washers between the binding post and the frame or easier still, now you have the mark on the underside of the rear spring, loosen the screw, rotate the wholse spring armature bar assembly to face away from the machine, tighten the screw and gently lift the spring assembly, it doesnt need much and if you over bend it then you cannot bend it back, it only needs a tiny amount, re position the assembly again, align the pen mark on the underside of the spring to the rear spring shelf and this should give you enough rear spring compression, adjust the position of the contactscrew and contact gap depending on what it is to be used for and bobs your uncle!

As I say, dont over bend the rear spring, if it needs more just follow the steps again.
 

eggdrop2011

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Actually i wish i was pulling the needle down.... in the pic with the golden machine.. but im not. thats how it looks not being touched.
Thank you guys so much for the help and suggestions. I am going to try that when i get home in an hour or so. also.. here is a couple pics of my (liner) do you guys think its all good or does it need adjustments??? I REALLY APPRECIATE all your help!!
 
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eggdrop2011

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here is a new updated pic upclose of the (shader machine) that youve been giving me help with.. i was not pulling the needle down :(

2011-07-20_14-20-27_907.jpg
 

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On the last picture, two things grab my attention, firstly I hate to see a packing washer underneath the rear spring to space it off the rear spring shelf, better with no washer and sitting flat with the full surface area of the spring locked down, it will run better, but due to the coils there are problems.

How I have got round the same problem before is to remove the packing washer, fit a brand new unbent rear spring to the A bar and see how it sits across the coils, the rear coil should have a tiny gap about the thickness of a piece of paper with the bar down and no gap on the front coil, to achieve this the coild need removing and the underside needs to be filed down, only a little at a time then refit the coils and try again until it is right, if you take off too much then you hav eto shim it to give increased height, I recently had to go through this with a brand new hand built machine which didnt run right but I was able to fit a steel yoke of the correct size at get rid ofthe packing washer.

Machine tweaking is not difficult but you do need to have patience.

Do you put a bend in your needle bar before installing them?
 

eggdrop2011

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I used your advice on the bending of the rear spring by removing the contact screw point and such.. I put a TINY bit of bend on it.. but when i attached everything back and hooked up the clip cord.... it wouldnt even make any movement.. i had to smash up the voltage to around 14a to even get it to move.. but i took the rear spring off.. and rebent it back down.. and hooked up the clip cord.. now its about 11a and running good.. but now a new problem... with nothing attached it runs great and lots of movement.. but when i put on the tube and needle and nipple... it seems to hardly want to move.. if you have cam on your pc.. i could cam with you and show you what i mean???.. and to answer your question...yes i do put a slight bend in the needle bar,

overall.. it seems that theres not much magnetism (not sure on spelling there lol) going on from the spring to the coil... could that be due to that gapping of the coils that you were talking about.. ?

again.. i REALLY appreciate your help on this!! i know im a beginner.. and it takes patience.. and i have plenty of that from my child :)
 

Tattooz

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Am i missing something here?
Pull the needle down, then measure the gap. If the needle isnt down on the last picture, then you have serious issues. When the needle is UP in its unpowered state, the front spring should be pressing against the contact screw, and when it is magnetised ie. down, there is your gap.

There is a video showing you in the media section here:
http://www.helpmetattoo.com/forum/media.php?do=category&cid=1
 

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Thats a good video, clearly showing how to set and tune ....... if everything on the machine is aligned and fits as it should, you can make a bad machine run but it can hinder progress, spometimes you do have to strip them and go right back to basics checking and adjusting and sometimes even altering the frame.

To the original poster, where are you, perhaps someone close to you could set the machines up.

By the way, I am not saying my way is the right way or the only way but the way that works for me, there is a book called Tattoo machine set up, tuning & maintenance by Joey Desormeaux, well worth a read.
 

eggdrop2011

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I live in the united states... near detroit michigan to be exact. and i thank all of you for the help!!!